Monday, November 4, 2013

Read-Along: The Republic of Thieves, Part Two

It's time to rejoin Locke, Jean, and the Bondsmagi for week two of the read-along of Scott Lynch's Republic of Thieves!  This weeks questions extend through the Interlude "Bastards Abroad", and were provided by Lisa of Over the Effing Rainbow.  

There are spoilers past this point, so beware!


Blood And Breath And Water: Patience tells Locke that the ritual to save him is serious business. She wasn't kidding... What did you make of this scene, and do you think any of it might (perhaps literally) come back to haunt Locke?

I’m not sure if I believe his vision of Bug was real or a hallucination, but the story of the series does seem to be edging towards the more magical side (Bondsmagi, the Eldren, etc.).  I think that the doubt about the trustworthiness of his God that this vision planted in Locke’s mind will not go away quickly, at least.  I am wondering if the gods of this world are real, and if so, if we’ll see more about the role of the Crooked Warden.

Orphan's Moon: Back to the childhood of the Gentlemen Bastards, and here we get another ritual, this one in service to the Nameless Thirteenth. It looks as though it might be Locke vs. Sabetha, round two - but this time Locke seems to be a little slow on that uptake... Who do you think deserves to be given the final oath? Locke or Sabetha?

This is going to echo some stuff Sabetha said later, but based on their deeds, Sabetha.  Sabetha got a ridiculously dangerous and impressive offering for the ceremony, just to make sure she would be noticed.  Locke just brought some money.  I think Locke was chosen because Chains and the others are grooming him for leadership, and they don’t have similar plans for Sabetha.  I don’t know if that’s because she’s a girl, or just because Locke is overwhelmingly charismatic.

Across The Amathel: This chapter takes a breather for quite a bit of Eldren history, while Locke starts recovering. What do you think of the history lesson, and Patience's ominous speculation regarding the Eldren? Is this something you'd like to know more about?

This was a pretty blatantly infodumping section, but we needed some background on Karthain and the Bondsmagi.  I am very curious about whether the Bondsmagi know more about the Eldren than Patience is telling here.  Also, I’m not sure what to make of the memory she shared with Jean and Locke.  I’m surprised they weren’t angrier, honestly.  Patience could have stopped the Falconer from going to Camorr, and she didn’t.  She couldn’t have known that he would murder Locke and Jean’s friends, but she did know that many people would end up dead (or as good as dead). 

Striking Sparks: The gang's off to Espara, after a bad summer and a pretty thorough dressing-down from Chains, and we finally get to the source of the book's title - they're bound for the stage! What are your thoughts on this latest 'challenge' and the reasons for it?

It makes me think that perhaps they are the first group of thieves Chains has raised—he may have not really been ready for dealing with four teenagers being whiny, lazy and irritable at the same time.  At this point, it really doesn’t seem like this is a disguised lesson.  It seems like he really just needs a break from all these kids, and maybe some travel will break them out of their patterns.

The Five-Year Game: Starting Position: The election gets underway with a party (as you do) and before it's even over, the Deep Roots party has problems - and not just thanks to Sabetha. What do you make of Nikoros and his unfortunate habit?

First off, congrats to the people who predicted Sabetha would be heading up the other side! Given all the flashbacks we’ve seen so far, I think Locke and Jean’s victory is far from assured.  However, given how emphatically they’ve been warned not to collude with Sabetha, I’m also wondering if they’ll end up doing just that.  Sabetha may have parted ways with the Gentlemen Bastards, but I still think she would not think highly of the Bondsmagi who murdered her old friends.

As for Nikoros, there is yet one more handle Sabetha can use to control the Deep Roots side.  I don’t know what Locke and Jean can really do about it.  Assuming it’s an addiction, insisting he break it could well make him completely useless for the duration.  I guess the best thing to do in their situation would be to ac         quire however much he will need for the 5 weeks, and instruct him to be discreet about taking it.

Bastards Abroad: The gang arrives in Espara, and already they've got problems (nicely mirroring the Five Year Game!)... This aside, we've also seen some more of what seems to be eating at Sabetha. Do you sympathise with her, or is Locke right to be frustrated with her?

I was mostly coming over in her favor in the first section, and it’s no different here.  She’s in a very difficult position, and I think it is a testament to her strength of character that she isn’t taking it all out on Locke. First off, she has some legitimate concerns about Locke’s ‘love’ for her. She is only the best of limited options, since she is the only woman he’s spent much time in proximity to.  He has put her on a pedestal in his mind, which generally means the ideal of her that he fancies is mostly imaginary. 

In addition, there’s the whole primacy and power issue.  In the Gentlemen Bastards, Locke just naturally gets everything Sabetha wants, and doesn’t even really notice that it’s happening (or when it’s unfair).  If Sabetha allows herself to be charmed by him, how does she keep from becoming just one more thing that Locke gets because he wants it?  Of course, the fact that she likes him complicates things a bit, since rejecting him would also harm her… I don’t envy her situation, and it is a bit frustrating that Locke doesn’t really get the problem.  I can see why Sabetha would later choose to break off from the Gentleman Bastards.    

Other bits!

We get to see the origins of the “Thorn of Camorr”!  While that was neat, it also made me cringe a bit.  It’s just one more instance of what Sabetha was talking about.  She suggested it would be neat if they had names by reputation, everyone pretty much laughed at her, and then they decided to give one to Locke (even though he didn’t want it).  Fast forward a few years, Locke is the “Thorn of Camorr”… and I think Sabetha is still Sabetha (I could be wrong there, maybe her reputation name just hasn’t come up).

Other answers!
Violin in a Void
Lynn's Books
Theft and Sorcery
Over the Effing Rainbow
Dab of Darkness 
Little Red Reviewer
Genkinahito 
Just Book Reading 
Joma's Fantasy Books
Coffee, Cookies and Chili Peppers
All I Am - A Redhead

18 comments:

  1. Y'know, my views on Sabetha are starting to make me feel a bit villainous... But I'm loving all the discussion! I did figure she might be a source of many differing views, and you people are not disappointing me. It's awesome. :D Some nice answers here!

    You made an especially interesting point about Chains. I read a bit more into it, but your point could be on the money there. Teenagers ARE a handful, and these ones are not your average teenagers. Poor Chains... :D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's neat how differently everyone is reading her! I'm just now digging into all the answers, but it looks like she's stirring up a lot of discussion.

      I think the trip to be actors makes sense in terms of forcing them to get out of their rut, too. All the same, I bet I would need a vacation from them, if I were Chains!

      Delete
  2. Blood And Breath And Water: "I think that the doubt about the trustworthiness of his God that this vision planted in Locke’s mind will not go away quickly, at least. I am wondering if the gods of this world are real, and if so, if we’ll see more about the role of the Crooked Warden."
    I'm curious about this too.

    Orphan's Moon "I think Locke was chosen because Chains and the others are grooming him for leadership, and they don’t have similar plans for Sabetha. I don’t know if that’s because she’s a girl, or just because Locke is overwhelmingly charismatic."
    I also feel that this wasn't entirely objective. Sabetha certainly seems to think Locke is favoured, at least by Chains. And he has been a much more impressive thief, at least from the reader's POV.

    The Five-Year Game: "I guess the best thing to do in their situation would be to acquire however much he will need for the 5 weeks, and instruct him to be discreet about taking it."
    Maybe if they'd gotten to Karthain ahead of Sabetha. Now I think it's too dangerous.

    Bastards Abroad: *nods vigorously* Agree with everything you said here. And I particularly like this: "If Sabetha allows herself to be charmed by him, how does she keep from becoming just one more thing that Locke gets because he wants it?"

    And I feel exactly as you did about the Thorn of Camorr. Poor Sabetha.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think I'd like to see an inside perspective of more of Sabetha's work before I decide Locke is definitely more impressive! I guess we're not likely to get that, since Locke is the main character. :) Locke's work does seem to bring him more notice in the Camorri criminal world, though.

      Good point. Sabetha might already know that weakness by now. She's probably prepared for them to do something like that (buying him a private supply), so it would probably be hard to pull off without falling into a trap.

      Delete
    2. One problem with the Interludes is that they are all from Locke's perspective, so we are only getting his perception of what happened. I wouldn't be surprised if he has very rose-tinted glasses when observing anything about Sabetha.

      Delete
  3. Yeah, I also wonder if that shared memory will add to that simmering anger Locke and Jean have for the Bondsmagi in general and Patience in particular. So far she has seemed more reasonable than any other Bondsmagi we have heard of....if reasonable is the right word offering last minute healing to the dying at a very steep rate.

    Yep - Sabetha the pedstaled object of love. Locke doesn't even realize how insulting that can possibly be. Add to that, Sabetha really is the only female at this point in his life that he has spent time with and can have a full relationship with. Sure, he could visit the Guilded Lilies, but he can't tell them about the Crooked Warden and all their hijinks. Nope, that just leaves the option of Sabetha.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I suppose she has seemed reasonable, for a Bondsmagi. I am kind of waiting for Locke and Jean to find a way to cross them all. Surely they're not going to just put on a nice election show for them, right?

      And yeah, a pedestal is not a comfortable place to be. I still hope they do manage to have a romance, even if it is short and ends in tears.

      Delete
    2. I would quite like them to actually win this time and not be left destitute and on the run in the final chapter! :D

      Delete
  4. Yes, spot on with your point about Sabetha not being the latest thing that falls easily into Locke's lap!
    I don't know about the priesthood. Things do come easily to Locke and yet maybe Sabetha comes across too ambitious for that particular role. It's almost like her own ambitions make her weak in a way - or vulnerable - not really sure that I'm articulating that point very well so I'm going to leave it :)
    I did feel sorry for her though. I don't think it would be easy being on a pedestal - you want to be admired for what you are after all and not because somebody literally and sometimes unjustifiably worships everything you do.
    Lynn :D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe Sabetha wanted it more for the gain in prestige, after she lost her primacy in her gang, so it was more ambition than devotion?

      And yeah, pedestals are extremely frustrating--I hope Sabetha's conversations get him past that.

      Delete
  5. I wouldn't quite say that Sabetha is the only woman Locke's been around. He is introduced to Nazca quite early on and from the first book we know that she's a good friend of his. Still, he does definitely put her on a pedestal and idolise her. I think it's actually to her credit that she doesn't exploit that by snuggling up to him and then exercising all the power through him. Argh, I love them both!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Okay, that is a good point. I was thinking in terms of him mostly spending his time with the other Gentleman Bastards. I guess in his 'off-page' time, he probably spends time around Nazca and maybe other girls. And yeah, it would be so easy for Sabetha to manipulate him. It's impressive that she hasn't really used that against him. I can't wait to finally meet present-day Sabetha.

      Delete
  6. I certainly hope the Bondsmagi (Patience) know more about the Eldren because that means we might learn more by the end of the books as well. :)
    Oh, I hope that happens.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I'm with you, that I think this is the first group of orphans Chains has raised. Having one adopted kid, okay, that's handle-able. even two. But five? Who are all abnoxious teenagers at the same time? I'm shocked it took him this long to kick them out for a summer!

    " If Sabetha allows herself to be charmed by him, how does she keep from becoming just one more thing that Locke gets because he wants it?"

    yes!!!! that exactly!! she's in a crappy position.

    thinking more about the priesthood scene, I'm thinking about religious leaders who I know in real life, I know a guy who is in training. Would you want a religious leader who people already follow and look up to? or a religious leader who has an uphill battle to get people to listen to them? Locke already has the Gentleman Bastards wrapped around his little finger, so he's the natural choice. Doesn't matter that Sabetha wants it more, you know? Sounds terrible, but. . .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do you think Chains ever had any children of his own? It seems like maybe he didn't... so he would be even more unprepared for the horrors of having 5 hormonal teenagers in a single small home. :)

      I suppose that's true, about the priesthood. You do want someone that has that natural charisma around large groups, and Sabetha is really better one-on-one, I think (I have read the next section at this point). I can appreciate why she's frustrated, and it makes me feel frustrated, but I think I have to admit, after all the discussion this week, that maybe Locke was the right choice.

      Delete
  8. 2. Of course, they might know things about Sabetha that we, as Locke, do not and which could make her an unsuitable candidate.

    3. I got the impression that she thought that he would fail in the mission, so she probably thought that Camorr was relatively safe.

    6. Given their talk in Bastards Abroad, I am not sure that Sabetha will stick with the group for much longer. Her mixed feelings for Locke will make it increasingly difficult for her to be around him.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 2. That is true, we have no idea what Chains knows about Sabetha from pre-Locke times, especially.

      3. Yeah, I don't think being angry with Patience would be rational (she had no way of knowing what exactly would happen, and believed the Falconer would fail), but I was still surprised that they were not. Emotions don't always listen to reason, you know? :)

      6. Yeah, I'm beginning to see all kinds of reasons that leaving was becoming the only real option for her, particularly now that I've gone on and read the next section. :(

      Delete